Transcript: Open Up the Conversation - Navigating the workplace
Note: This transcript was created using the tool TurboScribe.ai - and whilst efforts have been made to rectify any mistakes, some errors might still occur.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Freja’s second of our Open Up the Conversation series. So before we start, I want to do a quick introduction for anyone listening who may not yet have heard of Freja’s. Freja’s is on a mission to change the way that society talks, thinks and feels about reproductive health conditions.
(0:21 - 0:57)
We believe that a key step in creating real and meaningful change is building a better understanding of how conditions like fibroids, pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder, polycystic ovary syndrome, adenomyosis, among many other reproductive health conditions really affect a person's day-to-day life. Therefore, Freja’s has been collecting and sharing written stories from all over the UK, and we're now inviting some amazing guests to help us open up the conversation further. So in this series of chats, we want to take a deep dive into the topics we know can be difficult to open up about when it comes to our reproductive health, that we can learn from and inspire each other.
(0:58 - 1:23)
So in the second instalment of open up the conversation, we're going to be discussing the topic, how to navigate the workplace. So before I hand over to our amazing guests to introduce themselves, I did also want to quickly mention that nothing discussed here is intended as medical information, as this is purely the participants sharing their own real experiences. And so if you are listening and are not at all worried about your reproductive health, you should consult your GP immediately.
(1:23 - 2:00)
I'm going to ask everyone now to give a quick introduction to themselves, if you could let me know your name, the condition you live with, a brief explanation of the condition would be great, and what they currently do for work. So I'll start with Carol Ann.
[Carol-Anne]
So I'm Carol-Anne, I'll start with what I do for work, so I deal with issues of probate, so when people unfortunately pass away, essentially, I deal with any overseas assets that they have, so it's a lot of paperwork and phone calls, essentially.
(2:01 - 2:59)
I personally live with polycystic ovary syndrome, which has been definitely diagnosed, and then some other things which I'm still sort of on the on the long road to diagnosis to try and sort of uncover, and with polycystic ovary syndrome, it's essentially where there's, in my case, an imbalance of hormones. So I have elevated testosterone levels, which affect how the egg naturally grows. So instead of it growing and becoming mature and then releasing, because of the imbalance of the hormones, it's very stop start in terms of the body signals, which affects things like ovulation, sometimes you may not ovulate, it can affect, you know, weight, you can have acne, like I've got some acne at the moment from my cycle, and I also experience excruciating pain sort of within the first couple of days of my period as well.
(3:01 - 4:45)
And that's just kind of my personal experience and kind of what I live with, with reference to the conditions, I guess. Thank you.
[Laura]
So my name is Laura Teare-Jones, and I live with PMDD, which stands for premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
And PMDD is a cyclical hormone based mood disorder, where symptoms which tend to be psychological, emotional and some physical symptoms, they present themselves from around the time of ovulation. And then they subside once the period starts. So if you have a typical kind of 28 day menstrual cycle, you're looking at around two weeks of every month of very extreme, very debilitating symptoms.
And the best way for me to describe it really is if you were to take something like PMS and take also bipolar disorder and kind of throw those together, the end result is something that looks like PMDD. So there's emotional and psychological symptoms that, you know, can be present with something like bipolar disorder, but it's cyclical. So it's all to do with how your brain responds to the hormonal fluctuations that occur during the menstrual cycle.
I was diagnosed in 2018. And at the time I was working in corporate finance, I found that working kind of nine to five Monday to Friday in an office environment is just not suitable for me. So now I'm self employed as a hormone and mindset coach turned business mental.
(4:49 - 5:47)
[Charlotte]
Hello, my name is Charlotte.
I was diagnosed with fibroids back in 2022. Fibroids are non-cancerous growths that grow off the womb. And they generally occur due to oestrogen dominance, but there are lots of factors that can impact the growth of them.
So I was diagnosed in 2022 and actually had hysterectomy in 2023 to remove the fibroids. They think that I had these fibroids for about six years, but due to being on the unplanned apologies, it wasn't picked up until my period resumed. So I actually work in an office as well.
I work within the financial services industry and technology, a very male dominated industry as well. And so having to deal with that alongside working in a very male dominated technical industry has been an interesting experience. And obviously, I'll talk about a bit more about that later.
(5:52 - 7:03)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
So to start us off, I thought I could open up a question for Carol-Anne. Could you tell us a little bit more about how your condition has affected your work?
[Carol-Anne]
Yeah, definitely. It's been very difficult with how it has affected it in some places.
So I used to previously work in financial services, and I found that the stress within the job meant that I would have a lot more low level pain and nausea, which I get. I kind of consider it as a kind of a flare up, where it's uncomfortable. And it's thankfully, at this point in time, it's not super strong when it is at that level.
But it's something that I can't take paracetamol and ibuprofen for to fix it or manage it. I can't process. I can't really, if I'm in any level of pain with any, even if it's not the most debilitating pain, I have to take codeine and paracetamol.
(7:04 - 8:24)
And there's times where I've had to call out of work early, I've had to call in sick for work, in previous jobs, you know, I've been close to, you know, one last sick day, and I will failed my probation. And so trying to navigate, especially because I feel like comparatively to you two I’m at the very start of my kind of journey of figuring out exactly what's going on, it's a lot harder when you don't have all of the answers. I have some of them, which I'm grateful for.
But it has made work feel stressful. And sometimes I do question whether I am capable of full time work. I'm glad I found a place that is very accepting and understanding.
So my manager has endometriosis. So she's very understanding of everything. But in other jobs, it's been very they've been accepting outwardly, but until it affects productivity, then it becomes a problem.
Which is very typical, but I'm very lucky that my current workplace allows me to be way more flexible, if needed.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
I've seen a lot of nodding. Charlotte, I think that you can relate to a lot of this as well.
(8:27 - 10:36)
[Charlotte]
Yeah, I mean, when I was diagnosed, so I've actually had back pain for a long, long time, I've always had lower back pain. And that is a symptom of fibroids. But because I didn't have periods, it never really got addressed.
I just got told to go and lose weight, and to, you know, lose the weight and the pain would go away. And so I think at that point, my work was pretty good. I mean, they're very hot on, you know, making sure that you've got all the ergonomic equipment for you.
For me, I think similarly to you, Carol-Anne, I had very severe periods when I eventually had my implant out. Initially, I thought it was because I hadn't had a period in six years and my body was just sorting itself out. But I got to the point where like, on the first day of my period, I couldn't leave the house.
I was filling like a maternity pad in about three hours. So it was really debilitating for me at the first kind of two days of my period where I just couldn't leave the house. And luckily, you know, I have the ability to work from home, I work in a hybrid environment.
And I really think that's helped with that, because it's not the case that I couldn't work, it's just that I needed to be able to go and sort myself out and be able to kind of excuse myself from meetings when I had to go and deal with it. I mean, as women who have heavy periods, when you gush, you gush, and then there's nothing that you can do to stop that. And so, obviously, that was very debilitating in terms of once a month, I was having periods, but then when I was diagnosed, part of the treatment that they often do for fibroids is they'll put you in a chemical menopause to try and shrink your growths, so in stopping the oestrogen production, it should shrink your fibroid.
But it means you go in the menopause when you're taking this treatment. So I then went from having really, really heavy periods to being full menopausal at work, and not taking any HRT to counteract that. And the reason for that being that they want your oestrogen levels to go to zero, they want to try and shrink the growth.
(10:36 - 15:00)
And I really struggled being really menopausal in work. I mean, I was only 32 at the time, and I would be crying my eyes out, I'd be having hot flushes, my hair was falling out in droves, and I was very lucky to have a really supportive manager at the time. And he knew what I was going through, and often having conversations about, right, I just can't work today, or I just need to work from home, I'm not going to join any calls.
And I think having that flexibility to deal with my emotions, because some days that if you're in the menopause, and I'm sure women who are in the menopause will agree, it can be really debilitating that the mood swings and feeling like you just don't know yourself. And then obviously having to have two surgeries in 2023, you know, not being able to work during that time, I worked from home a lot, I went down to being part time, and I work in projects. So obviously that then impacts what I can do on the project.
I think I'm probably very lucky that my work were really understanding with that. And they allowed me to come back part time and scale back work that I was having to do to support that. But it really, I would say, for myself, I'm quite a career driven individual, I would describe myself as quite ambitious.
And I feel like I have had to completely put the brakes on my life for the last two years, while I've dealt with this condition, because it's completely dominated all of my life outside of work, and a lot of the time in work. And I first get diagnosed, just how all-consuming it can be of your life.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
Sorry, and Laura, I know that right now, you're self-employed, but you weren't always self-employed. How did your condition affect you at work?
[Laura]
Yeah, I think, so when I was diagnosed in 2018, like I say, I was working kind of in corporate finance, it was a very kind of office-based role, pre-pandemic, so you know, everyone was kind of in the office. And I guess on a minimal surface level, I was kind of doubting my abilities in my role. And for anyone who's ever experienced brain fog, where you, you know, forget people's names you've worked with for years, or you forget a process that you do every day, that can really, really trigger a lot of self-doubts.
And so that's kind of like, you know, the surface level stuff. But on a deeper level, in the throes of PMDD, you can feel like the easiest thing to do will be to just kind of drive your car into a wall, or to quit your job, or to say how you really feel about a colleague, or whatever it might be. And so every month, what you're tasked with is trying to get through that month without causing any damage, without self-sabotage.
And I think when I was diagnosed, I had to do a lot of learning about myself. And, you know, I wasn't this bad person that I thought I was. And I realized just how much PMDD had had hold on me.
And I had to unlearn a lot. And I had to learn about the menstrual cycle, which, you know, prior to that, I had always just thought menstrual cycle equals a period. And I didn't realize there was so much more to it than that.
And I realized that I needed to really filter out a lot of stuff from my life that wasn't helping my PMDD. And I think to that point, working in the job that I was working in, although it wasn't a bad job, and the environment was okay, it wasn't supporting me. And I think working in that kind of role where you're expected to show up in the same way consistently every day, I live in a body that isn't the same every day.
And that's my reality. So to perform in the same way every day, it just wasn't realistic for me. And that's kind of how I ended up going self-employed in the end, really.
(15:04 - 17:58)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
And I know that from the three of you, that you have all opened up to your managers or your supervisors, whoever it might be. And I know that can be really challenging and a lot of people would kind of shy away from that. But I wondered if you'd want to talk a little bit about your experience with that, how that went.
It sounds like they were mostly supportive. Charlotte, do you want to talk a little bit more about when you opened up?
[Charlotte]
Yeah, of course. So when I was diagnosed, I had a male manager.
And I think one of the things I would say about myself that I have developed as I've gone a little bit older, is that I'm more willing to advocate for myself than I have been before. And I'm more willing to be very open about these types of, I guess, topics of conversation. And I think my opinion of it is that it shouldn't be taboo.
And I don't know if that made the conversation I had with him easier because of the way I felt about the topic and having that conversation. And I know not necessarily everybody feels that way or is able to feel that way. But I think my approach was, this is very natural.
And I should be able to talk to him about this. And he should be able to deal with this. If he can't deal with this as a manager, is he in the right type of role? Because women make up half of the population.
So I think because that was my mindset and my approach to it. And he and I had a very good relationship anyway. When I spoke to him about it, actually, he was very supportive.
And the response was, whatever you need, we will help you through this. Whatever you need to go and get time off. And actually, he opened up to me about his personal experiences with the women in his life that have been through that.
Because I guess for him, his way to connect is the stories of people he knows who have gone through something similar. And actually, I mean, I know we'll talk about it a little bit later. But one of the other things I've also found is when I talk to people about this, the number of people who then tell you your stories.
And actually, some of the senior management of work who, you know, I get on quite well with and who, when I explained my situation, were, like, yeah, I know, or this has happened to me. And actually, I was really surprised by the number of people who had gone through something similar. So yeah, I think to the original question, I think because of the relationship I had with my manager, and also, I think my approach to it and my feelings towards what I was going through.
I think it meant it was a constructive conversation between us. And I know that the workplace is changing. And, you know, maybe a few years ago, it wouldn't have been the same, or maybe some workplaces are still not in that place.
(17:58 - 23:03)
But it's definitely somewhere we should be able to get to where, you know, our managers can talk about these types of things. And it isn't a woman problem.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
That's great.
And I'm glad to hear that that's how the conversation went because that's not maybe the case for everyone. But it sounds like you had a great approach going into it as well that might help others. But Carol-Anne, you two mentioned that your boss had, although it wasn't PCOS, she had a condition that, you know, a reproductive health condition.
How did that conversation go for you with your manager?
[Carole-Anne]
So with my current job, I essentially told them in the interview stage. So they've actually been very great. One of the people in HR was also present and sort of said, okay, you know, with what you do have diagnosed and what you're explaining in terms of your experience, you know, how can we support you? You know, what is the best option to help you within the role? And, you know, especially just because I'm still within my probation time period, I said, as long as I can work from home on the days I really struggle, hopefully it will be limited, dependent on my health, because some months will be really good.
Some months will be really bad, unfortunately. As long as you're sort of willing to be okay with that, there is a lot of paperwork involved with my job because a lot of physical paperwork with wet signatures needs to go out to many different places. But they're very kind of understanding with that.
In previous jobs, I remember when I was, before I was diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome in 2023, I was in a job where I was waiting to undergo an ultrasound and I kind of was speaking to my manager who at the time was male and he was very awkward and didn't really know how to kind of deal with the topic. At that time, I didn't really have any solid answers, but it was very much, you know, I can only do what I can do. Thankfully, I was a remote only worker at that point in time.
And then my previous job, they were, my manager was supportive, but I do feel like, to a degree, it was not, it was as supportive as you can be within the atmosphere. It was, you know, I did go through occupational health referrals, you know, she did everything for me. She even checked to see if I could, because I was on the waiting list to rule out endometriosis, actually.
She said, you know, or see if we can do anything through private health care. So they were, she was trying to help me, but at the same time, because of the nature of what was going on, there was always going to be time, time frames and productivity quotas to hit and such, whereas I feel very lucky in my current job that that's not the case. It's just making sure that everything is kept on top of and it's marked on the kind of time that you spend on something.
But it does make all the difference knowing that my manager, you know, is super understanding. And it's very like, if you need to take the time off, take the time off, like it can wait, you know, I don't want you to force yourself if you're not feeling great at all. And, you know, if you need to make up the time, make up the time.
If it's a couple of hours here and there, and you do it in little chunks or do it in a big chunk, it's up to you how you do it. But, you know, you don't feel forced into trying to push through it. Whereas in my previous job, I definitely felt like I had to, to the best of my ability until I couldn't anymore, which had a knock on effect and made it a lot more kind of difficult on the days where I should, I said should, on the days where typically I would be okay.
It was a lot of, you know, I think the month of October, 2023, I had very few days where I wasn't dealing with nausea or pain. Thankfully, that's definitely not the case now. But yeah, that's that's kind of been my personal experience with my managers.
Very mixed experience overall, but I'm very thankful to be in the position I'm in with a decent manager and also a very decent sort of HR team as well.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
That's good. And Laura, I know that you'd opened up to your manager as well.
[Laura]
How did that go? Yeah, so I remember having what felt like a really positive conversation. So I shared my diagnosis and kind of what it meant. And, you know, I was still kind of learning about it and that kind of thing.
(23:04 - 26:39)
And I found that my manager was really supportive and really kind of intrigued and curious, which I found really helpful. You know, I was asked some great some great questions. But it's only on reflection that I think back actually, there was never any kind of official organisational support.
So there was no referral to occupational health. There was no conversations about long term, what this would mean for me as part of that business. It was it was more a case of informal support from a manager kind of, oh, you know, let me know if there's anything you need.
It sounds really hard. So supportive, but not from an organisational structural perspective. And I don't think there was ever any kind of official disclosure to the organisation.
I disclosed to my manager thinking that's kind of all I needed to do, but it was never escalated or anything like that. And I actually left the company not long after that. So it was really interesting to think how things could have gone long term with, you know, my cyclical symptoms.
But supportive, yes, from a kind of a personal level with my manager, but no structural or a wider organisational support.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
And I know that you mentioned there like possibly like referral to occupational health. But is there anything else that you can think of that your workplace could have done, or that you would have liked them to have done and support you?
[Laura]
I found it really validating how, how curious she was.
And I think I always say this now whenever I'm doing any kind of workplace training to do with the menstrual cycle. Compassionate curiosity is so, so important because managers don't understand that they're not experts in reproductive health most of the time, and that's absolutely okay. But that compassionate curiosity, I think it was really valuable.
So yes, there should have been wider support. But actually, what I would like to highlight is I had a lot of kind of validity. And yeah, I guess I just found it really helpful that I was asked questions.
And you know, she was very gentle with how she did that. And I think that's what helped me most. But yeah, I don't really know what else I could have needed at the time, I guess there could have been support in place for covering my work in the event that I wasn't able to.
And I'm one of those people, it takes a lot for me to, you know, to not turn up to work, to cancel work. But I think that's because of external pressure as well. And the organization I worked for was huge on customer service.
So it put a huge emphasis on that. And actually, I think in hindsight, what would have been great is to have a contingency plan in place that if I couldn't work, one of my colleagues would be able to come in and support the shift for me. But that conversation never took place.
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
So on the topic of colleagues, just because you brought that up, it doesn't necessarily need to be a manager that you speak to. People might open up to friends, colleagues. I wondered if anyone else has already done that and how those conversations went.
(26:41 – 30:57)
And Charlotte, I don't know if that's something that you've done.
[Charlotte]
Yeah, I can talk to this. So when I was diagnosed, and I was in work when I got the phone call, and I didn't know what fibroids were at the time.
And I have a colleague who I'm very good friends with. I would say we are very, very good friends. I couldn't get hold of my husband.
And I rang her and I was like, I don't know who to talk to. I've just found this information out. And she was like, right, come to my desk.
We'll look into this. And she was immediately there. And one of the things that she helped me realize is that I could get this dealt with through my private medical insurance.
So I thought that I would have to go down the NHS route. And there are a long waiting times for gynaecological issues on the NHS. And to get any type of support on the NHS is really, really hard.
And you have to wait a long time. So I was freaking out, because I'd just been told I had this growth in my abdomen. And I didn't really know what that meant.
And actually, she was a bit more au fait with the private medical and she rang up Aviva for me. And she contacted them and she said, you know, my friend has been diagnosed with fibroids. What can we do? Do you cover this? And they were like, yeah, we do cover this actually.
And so I would never have even thought to look at my private medical because to be honest, I didn't think they'd cover gynaecological issues. You know, I thought they would cover normal stuff. And I just thought because it's women's health, it wouldn't be covered.
And actually, because she pushed me to call them, I was actually able to go down the private medical route. And actually, I got a lot from the private medical. My issues got dealt with in 10 months, I had the injection, which is I had six months of that, which I didn't have to pay for because my private medical covered for it.
So actually, speaking to my colleague, who was able to then kind of say, right, how do we deal with this? And she put me on a path that maybe I wouldn't have gone on myself, because I wouldn't have thought I was covered. And I don't necessarily think I would have gone to HR about it either while it was getting diagnosed. So actually, she pushed me to check something that I wouldn't have done beforehand.
And the other thing that I tried to do, because off the back of this, I really, and I think I mentioned earlier, I don't want other women to feel like they aren't supported. I tried to set up a support group in Gloucestershire, which is where I live. And actually, the people who came to that were the people within my organisation, or friends of friends within that organisation who were going through and experiencing endometriosis, adenomyosis, fibroids.
And actually, we had a couple of meetups where we talked and we talked about our experiences, consultants in the area that we'd worked with. And actually, that was really beneficial. But that was through work.
And actually, once you start talking to people in the office, and in the workplace, you realise how many people are impacted, but just don't say anything. because it's not something you would normally talk about. So I think in terms of being able to talk to people in work actually I think it's generated some quite interesting conversations for me during this process. And obviously my transparency around what I've been through as well.
So yeah, I think, you know, if you have someone that you trust that you work with, you know, they may know someone who's gone through something similar that they can point you to and speak to. Because I also think as well, I know from my experience, my family are amazing, but are they going through what I'm going through and experiencing what I'm going through. And it's really hard to meet people who are going through the same thing as you.
And actually this created another avenue of conversation for me that I wouldn't have had otherwise. So yeah, I think, you know, if you feel comfortable I would advocate that you should talk to those that, you know, you work with that can support you.
(30:57 – 31:22)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
And it goes back to what you said at the beginning Charlotte about, you know, trying to make these topics not taboo.
You know, it takes just one person to kind of bring this up and then all of a sudden other people put their hands up like I have this or I know someone with this and you can build a support network that way. And Carol-Anne, I think that you've also had some of those conversations with your work colleagues, is that correct?
(31:23 – 36:01)
[Carol-Anne]
Yes, so I actually did the, I attempted to do the Walk For Endometriosis this July. I had to unfortunately take a step back due to my own health, which is infuriating to say the least.
But sometimes that's just the way it kind of shakes out. But I very much, I'm kind of like Charlotte in the sense that I, the way I personally see it is I would rather be the one to have the tact of a sledgehammer to break through about the issues, even if, you know, it doesn't always translate to the workplace that I'm in. In the workplace where, you know, I didn't really have any answers, all I knew was that it was getting worse and worse over the, you know, from 2022 onwards.
I was very scared and I didn't really feel supported and I didn't feel like, because I didn't know what was going on, that felt even worse. So I kind of had a resolve of, okay, well, once I have, So once I kind of had some form of answer, even though I don't think it's a complete picture just yet, it gives me an ability to kind of be able to talk to people about it. And I mean, with people in my current office, it's, I'm in the office usually every day.
And if I'm not in, then I can, you know, when I come back in and sort of talk to people, I'm like, Oh, yeah, no, it wasn't really in the office, I had an awful pain, you know, like I don't hide any, anything of what I go through. I don't necessarily, they don't see the full nitty gritty kind of aspect of it when I'm struggling to converse with people, but they, I never shy away from it and I'm always happy to be asked questions about it. Especially because I work in a very kind of small office currently, I'd much rather people come up to me and ask questions.
Or, you know, they know that if they want to drop me a message, they can, and I would never kind of force any of the conversations. But I would hope that if anybody else at my workplace was going through something similar, that I've instilled enough kind of confidence in how I approach it for them to want to talk to me. Because the last thing I'd want is for them to feel as alone as I have previously through this.
And it kind of goes for the same with, you know, family, friends. Like I realized that going through my own health journey, I spoke to sort of certain family members and certain things running the family and I wasn't aware of it until now. And it's, it's very important to be very open and honest with everybody around you, because then not only do they have a better chance of supporting you where you're at any given time, but they can also then, you know, go and do some research, or they can come and ask you whichever, you know, works for the individual, but they, they then have the option to be in a place to better support you rather than feeling like you can't kind of express that because I know when I've really struggled, and, you know, when the pain gets so bad, I can't really talk to people I can only shake yes or no until it subsides.
It's scary and it's a vulnerable state to be in. And the last thing you want, whoever sees, no matter who sees it, whether it's a co worker, a partner, you know, family, friends, whoever, I think the last thing people want is to let people into that vulnerability. But if you don't, then you lock out so much support.
So you almost have to embrace certain vulnerabilities that come along with it in order to be able to manage everything much better and to be able to actually have the support and, you know, find new avenues like, you know, Charlotte was saying about, you know, certain consultants and, you know, who's seeing who. Like, if you don't have those conversations and reach out, it's a lot harder on your health journey to then figure out, okay, this person is very good at this specific, you know, gynaecological condition, this person is really good at this one. Okay, if I think it's this person, then this is who I, you know, need to try and aim to see.
And it also means that you can advocate for yourself way better, which I'm kind of learning how to do sometimes.
(36:02 – 36:26)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
Thank you. And Laura, I had a question for you because I know that, you know, we've talked about your nine to five job and with your condition, it was just not feasible for you.
And you've kind of made the drastic decision to completely change your career path. But what you do is very, very interesting. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about that.
(36:27 – 41:44)
[Laura]
Oh, yeah, thank you. So to give you a bit of a backstory, I guess, as you know, I was working in corporate finance, and then I also trained to be a weight loss coach after using some weight myself. And so I was doing the two jobs alongside each other, realized that actually working in the office environment wasn't going to work for me.
And so I was working for a little while as a weight loss coach. And I will I will say that although I'm kind of very anti diet culture now, and I guess my PMDD diagnosis has actually fed into that. I did love the job.
I love the idea of supporting predominantly women to prioritize themselves and be, I don't know, look after themselves. But what I found after my diagnosis, I realized that above everything what we need is self compassion, because it doesn't matter if you're trying to change your career or lose weight or any other goal. If that goal is born out of obligation or pressure, then it's probably not going to work anyway.
And I think I saw a lot of that as a weight loss coach. And I set up a podcast during the pandemic called My Hormones, My Health, which was all about having conversations like these really where we just talked about our experiences. And further on into the pandemic, I was made redundant, and I was heartbroken because I loved the job of coaching, and I had my training and all of this experience.
And I'd also set up my podcast where I was having all these really important conversations. So to me, it just made sense to use that training to do something purposeful, something helpful, and to support other people living with what I call hormone havoc. And a lot of the people that I work with, it's not just about PMDD, it's not just about how do I get a diagnosis for PMDD, because all of that stuff we can cover.
But what I love is I get to support people who have imperfect health, but also have a life outside of that. They still want to excel in their career or whatever it might be. And often the people that I work with, they know what they're living with, whether that's PMDD or something else.
But they just don't quite know how to navigate that and the goals that they have. And I think this can happen for a lot of us because we're like, yeah, I'm going to do something amazing. I'm going to run a marathon and then our symptoms hit.
And it's like, oh, wait a minute. I can't do that. And we struggle then to progress and move forward.
And so I love to be able to kind of remind people that actually you can you can still do things. You might just have to navigate them a little bit differently. It might take you a bit longer or we can put things in place so we can get support to enable you to still live life on your terms.
And I know that sounds really cheesy, but I also know what it's like to feel like your condition rules you and to feel like you are trapped inside a box. And so I love getting to have conversations with people where we're kind of like, yes, you're dealing with this thing and it's awful and it's hard. And when I have sessions with people on their hardest days, it's a very different conversation to when they're having a better day.
And so it's trying to kind of get that balance with them as well. But I think to go back to your conversation about colleagues as well, I get to do workplace training. And a lot of the time the colleagues who show up for those training sessions are people who they want to help.
They want to help their colleagues, their line managers who are just kind of like a colleague on my team has just been diagnosed with something like endometriosis. And I just don't know what I should be doing or what I shouldn't be doing. And actually, I think that's so important to just show up.
And so if there are any kind of line managers listening back to this, what I would say is just show up, ask those curious questions with compassion. Don't prod and poke, but ask your colleagues what they need, how you are really. Those are the basic things we need.
And often I do find that it's male colleagues who tend to be a little bit more pragmatic about these things. I think often as women, as we've just heard, we struggle to be vulnerable, whereas I think when you take something like menstrual health or reproductive health, male colleagues, I'm talking very generally here, they can kind of just be a bit more kind of like, okay, what is this? What do I need to know? What do you need from me? How can I help you? And I think this because there's less vulnerability or attachment, they tend to be very helpful in that sense. So I guess that's all I would say about colleagues.
(41:45 – 42:02)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
Thank you. And Charlotte, I know you just talked about your support group, for example, but you're doing some other work, aren't you, in relation to your condition and advocating if you wanted to share any of that?
(42:03 – 44:34)
[Charlotte]
Yeah, so I have been working on an app called Hysteria Health, and we're very early days in the moment, and it's bore out of my experience from the last 24 months. I think there isn't a lot of support there in helping women to understand their conditions around things like fibroids, polycystic ovaries.
A lot of women who track their periods and suffer from these, I would say the market doesn't necessarily cater to that at this point. I struggled with fibroids. I know on my app, I literally put in that I had fibroids and then nothing happened with that.
And so I think that for me, it was about feeling seen with the technology that I'm using, that actually this is a very important condition in its own right fibroids. And there are symptoms that go with that, that are very pertinent to what I'm experiencing. So I'm looking at building a Gynaecological Health app that supports women through their Gynaecological Health journey to track symptoms and side effects and education.
And actually to provide support post-surgery for any treatment plans that they have. Again, bore off my own experience of very little support post-hysterectomy in terms of how to get better, how to heal. The NHS provided very little information, and the women I've spoken to who have had hysterectomies on the NHS have also struggled.
I was given a leaflet and then discharged. There isn't enough support out there for us. And also as well around education, looking to help increase education because I think had I known what fibroids were when I was younger, that would have helped me advocate for myself probably sooner.
And I think that there isn't enough around the education of these symptoms for women until you get diagnosed. And at that point, generally it's too late because they're probably quite far down the line because we aren't educated to know our bodies. So yeah, so it's kind of a at the heart mission driven application that we're working on.
I've got two co-founders as well. So hopefully you'll see something in the coming weeks, months. And if anyone is interested in signing up or being involved, I would love to be like reach out and chat to you and get your thoughts on that.
So yeah, please reach out.
(44:34 – 45:06)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
Thank you. But one last question for everyone.
So whoever wants to go first can go ahead. But well, actually, it's two questions. I wanted to see if everyone could think of just to finish up kind of what's one thing that they wish that their employers could do to support you better with reproductive health conditions.
And then if you have one is one piece of advice for someone that might be struggling with their work because of a reproductive health condition. So whoever wants to go first, go ahead.
(45:07 – 46:30)
[Laura]
I'll go.
So I guess for employers, I would say, as I've kind of already mentioned, really, it's be curious. So don't necessarily wait for the menopause training or the menstrual health training. I would say be curious, check in with your colleagues in an informal, regular basis and ask them, how are you really what's going on in your world right now? And whether that be relating to menstrual or reproductive health, we never know what's going on in a person's life until we really ask them.
And so I think particularly individuals within organizations such as line managers, they do have a duty to be checking in on their colleagues and their teams rather than waiting for their colleagues to come to them or waiting to have menopause training and things like that. Because you don't need to know all the answers. No one is expecting you to be a reproductive health expert.
But I think what we can all expect from the people around us is some compassion. And I think that's really important. So I guess that's how I would answer the first question Lauren.
What was the second question?
(46:31 – 46:36)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
I just wanted to say, do you have any advice for someone that might be in a similar position to to yourself?
(46:37 – 48:26)
[Charlotte]
So I would say I think Carol-Ann said earlier about vulnerability. And I would say we have to embrace vulnerability. And I know it's hard.
I know it's uncomfortable when I set up my podcast. I remember I wanted to raise awareness of PMDD anonymously and I didn't want my face to be anywhere. And I was very conscious when I set up my Instagram account that it would be anonymous because it was really important to me to raise awareness.
But I wasn't in a space where I felt like I could be out there. And then after a while, I kind of realized that if I want people to talk about these things more and break the taboo, it has to kind of be an internal thing. Where we do that ourselves because how can I expect other people to talk about these things openly if I wouldn't do it myself? And so I think we're all very good at saying, you know, tackle the taboo and it's OK to not be OK.
But I think we all have to push ourselves a little bit to embrace that vulnerability a little bit more. And again, I say that knowing it's really difficult and it has to feel safe and we do need to protect ourselves first. But I think particularly when it comes to work and employment, you never know actually how much good you're doing by having those conversations.
And we've heard today, haven't we, how having a conversation with a colleague has actually really opened things up. And I think actually we do a lot of good when we are vulnerable. So I know it's hard, but yeah, try and try and embrace the vulnerability when we can.
(48:27 – 51:11)
[Charlotte]
I don't mind going next. If that helps. So one of the things that I think employers should do is I think they should provide training to staff and to management in gynaecological health issues.
Because if we don't know about them and they don't know about them, it will continue to be something that isn't talked about. I think providing some sort of formal training on how to help women who are going through things like the menopause, dealing with things like polycystic ovaries, really heavy periods, they can be really debilitating. And I guess teaching management how to deal with that and also teaching employees how to look out for the signs and symptoms.
And I don't think that should be just women. I think that should be men as well, because actually your partners may suffer from things like this. So for me, that is what I think employers should do.
I think I'll give two pieces of advice for what I think people who are actually having issues with work. If you've been diagnosed and you haven't begun treatment or maybe you have begun treatment and you have private medical insurance, I would recommend reaching out to your private medical insurance provider. I appreciate not everybody has private medical and that's a very fortunate position to be in.
But if you do have it, I would really recommend reaching out and seeing what may or may not be covered, because I don't think it's very clear. So if that would help you in any way, I feel that you should do that. And then anyone who is suffering from it, and I won't repeat what Laura said, because Laura's already given some really good advice.
I would maybe say, actually, you have sick days and you should be able to use them. I think sometimes you feel guilty using sick days for things like a period or period pain. But actually, it is OK to use those.
You know, you're entitled to sick leave. And this is a very valid reason to take sick days. I have done it before.
I've also taken mental health days related to what I'm going through with my symptoms. And sometimes I just call them no days. I just need a no day and I just need to sit under my duvet and just feel sorry for myself all day.
And that's how I have managed it in terms of myself. I think Laura's given some really good advice. I would probably give them the same advice if she hadn't.
So that would be my alternatives as well.
(51:12 – 54:24)
[Carol-Anne]
I think in terms of what employers could or should do, I think it's... I consider myself very lucky that my employer, you know, I guess the company that I work for has been very on top of it. I remember the first day I went to look, they were like, oh, here's all the supplies if you need it.
If you need any more, just give HR a shout and all the office manager a shout. But I think creating the space for your employees to feel like they can be vulnerable safely to their manager. That to me is the most important thing, bar none, because if you work somewhere, it doesn't matter what level of stress it is.
I mean, I think if it's, you know, somewhere like the corporate financial world or, you know, financial services, I think it's even more important with the level of stress that it can bring on the people who don't have any reproductive health issues. That's going to be magnified tenfold on top of what's already going on in their lives. If they don't feel like they've got that space to be vulnerable, the fear of, you know, if I mention this, then they're going to see me differently.
And, you know, then it's going to cause an issue. Or if I see it and then they see that, you know, my productivity drops, then what now? And if you don't feel safe, you're not going to be able to be vulnerable. That is the most important thing.
And I think employees should do that across the board regardless. But even more so for, you know, people who suffer with, you know, conditions like us and many others out there. And I think for people having issues with work, I would say, I kind of agree with both of your kind of advice.
I definitely am guilty of trying to not take sick days. I've definitely done that in the past. But it's knowing that whilst the place that you are currently working at is all that feels like you have in your life, that's not the only workplace that exists.
You can seek out a better workplace. You can, you know, like I, in one workplace, got let go. And I felt very awful about it for so long afterwards.
But I'm in a workplace which much better serves what I personally need. And they're much more supportive. So balanced with, you know, different sort of financial responsibilities.
Don't feel like you have to stay at a job that doesn't feel safe just because you're worried it could be worse because it could be so much better. And I understand why you would think, why you would worry if this job is treating you awfully, then every job will do the same. But that's not the case.
And sometimes you do need to take a little leap of faith or have a little leap of faith forced onto you by circumstance to be able to find those. That's kind of what I would I would kind of advise.
(54:25 – 54:55)
[Lauren – Freja’s Volunteer]
No, thank you.
I think that all of these pieces of advice are so valuable just before we close any last minute things anyone wants to add. Well, thank you all. And this has been amazing.
I'm sure that there are a lot of people that listen to this that will resonate with a lot of what you said. And your advice has all been amazing.
[Charlotte]
Thank you.
[Carol-Anne]
Thank you.